As I mentioned before, the Sandbox newsgroup was originally proposed by 3-3/4" collectors. It was soon evident though that more and more discussions were focusing on the 12" Joes. As early as October of 1996 there was discussion of a split.
"Don't take this the wrong way - but I am primarily interested in the 12" GI Joes. Can we not have another newsgroup to separate the midget Joes from the "REAL" Joe (I'll get mail for that one)? 8-)
THOR"
"You're right, you WILL get mail for that remark! They're all Joes, no matter what size they are (or how stiff their joints...)
R. Sorrels"
"Being a collector of all types of JOE, I think thats a terrible idea. 'Why' being the first question? Maybe we should have separate groups for Vintage, Adventure team , Super Joe, 3&3/4, HOF,Sgt. Savage , Extreme,Classic,etc. ........I don`t think so .Or maybe YOU should have YOUR own group, Now theres an Idea!
All JOE should be welcome here............MERK"
"Thor, I immediately delete anything that says '3...' in the header. As long as people identify what the post is about I don't care if the two groups stay together. I do think though that the 12" topic has gotten alot more traffic since the resurgence of 12" joes. (I guess that means a split might be warrented). Isn't there some usenet procedure for figuring out if it's time to split?
ML Bissonnette"
Then there was this rather insightful and prophetic post:
"Look, as someone who had to deal with the split from Rec.Toys.Misc to Rec.Toys.Action-Figures, let me just say: it hasn't gone 100%, and I doubt it ever will.
Lots of people still INSIST on posting AF related c*** to the MISC group, even though they're not supposed to anymore........
Two GI JOE groups (with what...20 new messages a day?) would just mean newbies would crosspost, not use the correct group, whatever.
AND you've got to remember that this is an ALT group, which means that LOTS of major carriers and ISP's may never even CARRY it.....or it may take months....
In other words: Its a nice idea, but there's no way a SPLIT vote would float right now.....the RTM/RTAF split was a real long pain in the ***, but it was necessary..400+ messages a day, and people complaining about all the AF posts in a "misc" group.
Don't go this Split route...trust me.
IF there are those of you here who are so ridiculously prejudiced that Only YOUR Joes are worth reading/discussing, just skip the messages with 3" in the headers.
Brant
But...I gotta admit.....its pretty sad if that really is someones attitude. I mean, you can like or not like 3" joe....but this isolationist c*** is nuts.. :D"
"I agree with a few of the points raised by those against a split-It was actually two years later that the split was officially proposed. In January of 1998, J. Thorpe posted the following:
-the skipping of messages that aren't to your interests
-the long, arduous process of creating a new newsgroup
-the question of whether a new newsgroup is even warranted
-the lack of traffic in this newsgroup
HOWEVER,
I'm going to have to say kudos to Thor for bringing this issue up. While it's not a problem now, one year from now, we may have a different story.
1997 is bringing a huge assortment of the 12" figures, AND 1997 is bringing back the 3 3/4" figures. What happens if a whole new generation of collectors/kids see these new figures and get interested in them?
Then they'll come here.
As of right now, I'd say 90-95% of the posts are 12" related. No one questions the sheer #s of 12" posts, no problems. But what happens when the new 3 3/4" figs come out, and this group suddenly turns into 100-200+ posts a day? What if this newsgroup suddenly becomes half 12" posts, half 3 3/4" posts?
THEN it just might get a little too difficult to just skip posts.
Is a split necessary now? No. But it just might become necessary in the next year or so. And considering how much of a pain it is to create a new newsgroup, maybe we should start discussing its feasability now. Just a few questions that I can think of that need to be answered before we start down the road of "splitsville".
-Are there enough 3 3/4" fans out there to support a group? Clearly a 12"-only group would thrive - would a 3 3/4" one work? Does the volume of traffic in a 3 3/4" group even matter?
-Do the 12" fans want the 3 3/4" fans to go somewhere else?
-Do the 3 3/4" fans want the 3 3/4" fans to go somewhere else?
-What the heck will be the name of the new newsgroup? Will it be clear enough to differentiate for newbies who don't know what group to post in? Will the small guys move to a new group or will the big guys?
-Rec or Alt heirarchy?
-What about "miscellaneous" Joes? Super-Joe, Sgt Savage, Extreme? Do they gut lumped in with the big Joes or the small Joes? Do we create a special newsgroup just for them (alt.toys.gi-joe.hahahahahahahahahahahaha)?
At this point, I think the BEST course of action is to not split the group.
However, we 3 3/4" fans don't have to sit still. Corey Stinson has brought up the possibility of a 3 3/4" listserv. This might be the BEST way to guage whether or not a new newsgroup would be supported.
This topic of discussion should be brought up from time to time, just to see if the time ever arrives that a split is unavoidable.
NEW FIGS IN 97! YO JOE!
Eugene"
"PROPOSAL: alt.toys.gi-joe.1980s
From: J. Thorpe, a.k.a. SNAP!!!MAN
Date: Sun, Jan 11 1998
For your newsgroup file:
alt.toys.gi-joe.1980s for the discussion of the G.I.Joe: A Real American
Hero toy line of the 1980's
Charter:
Newsgroup for news and discussion related to G.I.Joe: A Real American Hero (a popular toy line from the 1980's). Discussion includes the toys, cartoon series, comic book series, movie, and other things relating to A Real American Hero.
Justification:
The alt.toys.gi-joe newsgroup is used for discussion of both the 12" G.I.Joe toy line and the 3.75" toy line, but the majority of the posts deal with the 12" toy line. The 3.75" toy line was one of the biggest selling lines in the 1980's, resulting in a popular cartoon series, comic book, and movie. The toy line is still popular among collectors of vintage toys. In 1997, the toy line was revived by Hasbro, resulting in new figures being available for the first time since 1994.
Thank you, and I'd appreciate any comments"
Not even 2 weeks later, the new group was already making its way to news servers.
Incredibly, in the Sandbox there were no flame wars, no arguments, not much of anything. On the contrary, the new group was welcomed by Sandboxers. Perhaps it had to do with the fact that many of the 12" collectors also collected the smaller Joes.
"alt.toys.gi-joe.1980s is up!
J. Thorpe, a.k.a. SNAP!!!MAN
Date: Fri, Jan 23 1998
The newsgroup dedicated to the G.I.Joe: A Real American Hero line is up and running, so if your interested in A Real American Hero come on and visit. If you're unable to receive it, ask your ISP to add it to their server."
"Interesting...there has always been talk of developing another NG for RAH...but I didn't think it'll happen.
THOR"
"From: J. Escobedo
Date: Sun, Jan 25 1998
I agree with john that there is more 12" joe talk here and praise him for creating the 3 3/4 newsgroup. Now I do not have to scroll through to find letters from 3 3/4 collectors. "
There wasn't much more to add. From that time forward the 3-3/4" collectors simply had their own place to play and the "big" Joes had the Sandbox all to themselves.
If you want to know more about the RAH group and the 3-3/4" Joes here are some links:
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.toys.gi-joe.1980s
http://www.yojoe.com
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/yojoe-thepit/
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